Ben Traverse and Nick Veine thoughtfully revisit and reimagine timeless tales connected to the Emerald Isle on Me Grief and Tears to Smother: Traditional Songs and Ballads of the Irish Diaspora.

The traditional folk duo features a dozen tracks—ranging from sweet ballads to raucous drinking songs—celebrating the historic traditions of Ireland and its ex-pats on their latest album.

“I think the biggest thing someone can learn from this record is how borders and cultural divides are less important than one might think,” said Traverse, who’s from Grand Rapids, Michigan and is the duo’s co-lead vocalist and multi-instrumentalist alongside Veine.

“Most of these songs didn’t actually come from Ireland, but they were either written by [its] people or were brought into the tradition from the outside. It’s all richer because of it. Just because the version of ‘Wild Rover’ came from Australia doesn’t mean that it isn’t Irish now—it’s both.”

Throughout Me Grief and Tears to Smother, Traverse and Vein sing about soldiers, fishmongers, families, immigrants and other storied figures against a backdrop of rich harmonies and majestic acoustic folk instrumentation.

“They tell the tales of quite diverse people and that’s very important. Everyone hears of stereotypes of the drunken Irishmen, but Irish culture is very nuanced and beautiful,” said Veine, who’s from Manistee, Michigan and serves as the duo’s other co-lead vocalist and multi-instrumentalist.

“There’s alcohol in just about every culture around the world. Irish songs celebrate the ability of drinking establishments/events to bring people together and have fun.”

I recently spoke with Traverse and Veine about growing up in Manistee, becoming inspired by traditional Irish folk music, researching the history behind the album’s tracks, sharing their thoughts about select songs, embarking on an album release tour and making plans for the future.

Q: How has your fall been so far? What’s been inspiring you lately?

BT: Fall has been wonderful! I had a busy summer gigging just about as much as I possibly could, and I was grateful to have some time to chill before the album release. Nature is an ever-present source of inspiration for me and the [recent] fall colors were no exception. My friends and loved ones have also been an ever bigger source of inspiration, too.

NV: Great! The weather has been hard to keep sort of a gauge on, but it’s doable. I attended the Great Lakes Music Camp a few weeks ago with Ben and have been riding that high ever since. Lots of roots music, jazz and avant-garde music coursing through my veins.

Q: Nick, how did your musical journey start while growing up in Manistee? At what age did you start playing guitar, banjo and mandolin? What artists inspired you along the way?

NV: I started playing guitar at 10 and then mandolin around 16. Banjo followed as did keys and other plucky things. I started singing seriously when I was 13 or 14 and was inspired by the likes of Jason Mraz, Jack Johnson, Elvis Presley, the Bee Gees, Johnny Cash and James Taylor.

Q: Ben, how did receiving a guitar at age two from your grandfather help spark your initial interest in music while growing up in Manistee? At what age did you start playing upright bass, fiddle, bodhrán, viola, mandolin and the mountain dulcimer?

BT: Getting that guitar sparked the whole thing. I would “play” songs mostly by just strumming the open strings and trying to sing all the time. My favorites back then were Neil Young’s “Unknown Legend” and The Dead Milkmen’s “Born to Love Volcanoes.”

I started playing upright bass, fiddle, viola and bodhrán over the last few years. I’ve been playing mandolin for maybe five years while I was still in college, and I’ve been playing around on the mountain dulcimer since I was a kid. One of the dulcimers used on the album was my grandma’s, who got it from the dulcimer festival in Evart, Michigan in the ‘90s. I would play it when I went over to her house. One day she told me to take it home with me and here were are!

Q: Ben, how did a collaborative after-school program presented by Earthwork Music and SEEDS celebrating Alan Lomax’s 1938 ethnomusicological expedition in Michigan and Wisconsin help carry your interest in music forward?

BT: The SEEDS/Earthwork camp was maybe the most formative thing in my life. I had never been introduced to music that wasn’t on the radio before then. I was always really passionate about history, especially through a cultural lens. Combining that passion with music was mind-blowing for a teenage me. I also met so many friends and peers through that camp. It started my whole path leading me to join the Earthwork Music Collective.

Q: Nick, how did your musical journey lead you to study contemporary writing and production at the Berklee College of Music and later classical composition at Belmont University? How did those two educational experiences help shape you as an artist, songwriter and musician?

NV: I’ve always been super interested in learning. These institutions put me in the company of great scholars and teachers alike and [provided] the resources to explore whatever music I chose. The formal learning of jazz, blues and other African diasporic genres has shaped my brain, musicality and expression during and much after my years of formal schooling.

Q: Ben, how did your musical journey lead you to Grand Rapids? How did studying audio engineering at Grand Rapids Community College help shape you as an artist, songwriter and musician?

BT: It was also through a SEEDS/Earthwork camp that led me to study audio [engineering] at Grand Rapids Community College. The late, great Patrick Carroll taught a workshop on multitracking, which fascinated me. In addition to history, I was interested in technology and computers as a kid. Learning about audio and having it taught in such an engaging way by Pat was the thing that inspired me to study it.

The biggest thing going to GRCC did for me musically was get me out of Manistee. I love my hometown, but it’s no secret that Grand Rapids has an incredible music community and being able to integrate into that has been wonderful. I’ve met so many of my best friends through the scene here.

Q: How and when did you two come to meet one another? How did that initial meeting prompt you two to start performing together?

NV: Ben and I grew up together. We attended high school around the same time but knew each other long before then. My band Awesome Distraction would sometimes feature him on a song or two at our shows, and we’d often run into each other at many of the same music events. I was thrilled when Ben started doing his own shows and found his niche.

BT: I don’t think I could pin down an exact time. Nick’s dad was one of my teachers in middle school through the end of high school, and he almost certainly was the catalyst for our meeting and becoming friends. We didn’t start out by playing music together. Nick and his band Awesome Distraction would let me play a few songs during their intermissions, especially at their Douglas Valley Winery shows. That eventually grew into me hopping in and playing a few songs with them like [Johnny Cash’s] “Folsom Prison Blues” and Tenacious D’s “Tribute.”

Q: What inspired you two to record an album of traditional Irish songs and ballads? What’s special to you about Irish music and the important role it plays in celebrating Irish heritage?

BT: We didn’t start playing Irish music together until later, but “The Parting Glass” was a mainstay of the Awesome Distraction repertoire and songs like “Wild Rover” and the Irish version of “The Moonshiner—related to but very different from the two versions of “The Moonshiner” I released in 2022—were key parts of mine.

At the time, I played the music more because it was fun rather than any specific celebration of Irish culture. I think that took a more intimate understanding of the importance of traditional music and the role it plays for working-class people that I didn’t understand or appreciate until much later.

NV: I’m genetically Irish, but it’s never been a huge part of my heritage. I have Irish blood on my mom’s side of the family, but it’s the music that I heard at traditional festivals and throughout my independent listening that inspired my interest in this. That—and the fact that Ben and I would have some common grand musically—led to a very fun collaboration.

I studied Irish and Celtic culture at Berklee in a lecture-based class as well as a Celtic music ensemble. We listened to tunes, played them, learned of the contentious history between Ireland and Britain and read quite a bit of Irish literature.

Q: The album’s liner notes reference how many of the songs were written and/or had evolved on the unceded lands of the Massachusett and Delaware peoples and recorded on the unceded lands of the Anishinaabe peoples. How did those ties to Indigenous peoples and their lands inspire you while working on the album?

BT: That was an interesting thing to learn about! It makes sense that in Ireland, a country that natively spoke Gaelic, their songs would be in their own language. Songs in the English language that are viewed as culturally Irish seem to have been either imported from England as broadsides (England had much more access to printing presses than Ireland, making it difficult for Irish music to be circulated) or were written by Irish ex-pats.

Songs written in this Irish style were a big hit on Tin Pan Alley and the vaudeville stage. That was where songs like “Tim Finnegan’s Wake” grew out of. Songs written by white settlers in the U.S. are inherently steeped in colonialism and white supremacy.

It’s because of those ideals that they were there to begin with. It’s easy to play this music without thinking about the implications of viewing traditional American folk music as the music of white colonists. I’ve seen so many traditional music spaces ignoring Indigenous communities in the conversation. The land acknowledgment in the liner notes is a start to this conversation.

Q: What was it like to research the origin, history and evolution of each of the tracks on the album? What major insights did you gain from that research? How did that research provide you with a deeper appreciation for those traditional songs and ballads?

BT: It was so fascinating! It took me to libraries to old, obscure corners of the Internet to talking with the archivists at the University of Colorado Boulder Libraries. I think the biggest thing I learned from the research was what I was talking about earlier was that many English-language Irish songs originated from outside Ireland. Some of these songs are the oldest ones I’ve recorded to date.

Learning about them has deepened my understanding of how folk music is alive. Some of these songs are 400 years old—possibly older—and they evolved over those centuries just like any other organism. They adapted to new environments and new cultures, branching into new pieces that took their own evolutionary journeys.

Q: “Molly Malone” tells the story of a fishmonger who died of a fever. What did you find compelling about this song and the story of Molly Malone?

BT: I think the most compelling part of “Molly Malone” is how applicable it is. While there’s no evidence to suggest that the Molly in this song was ever a real person, I don’t think she needed to be. She represents this archetypal Irish working-class person. Selling fish isn’t a glamorous career, and healthcare wasn’t something that was accessible (or as effective) for people living under oppressive English rule. But despite that, she was loved; that’s what matters.

Q: Some interpret “Danny Boy” to serve as a message from a parent to a son going off to war. What intrigued you about this song and the narrator’s message of waiting for their loved one to return even after the narrator has passed away? 

BT: “Danny Boy” is an interesting one. It’s one of the newest songs on the album. A song being so embedded in a tradition and having a known author and history is a rarity. The song has such beautiful poetry to it that it’s hard to come by in both traditional and contemporary material. The story of the melody, an untitled air from County Derry, is a fascinating one, too!

NV: I’ve always thought “Danny Boy” was a beautiful song melodically and harmonically, even without any regard to the lyrics. Of course, the poignant lyrics are inseparable from the song and provide a tear-jerking message of hope and sorrow.

Q: The instrumentals, “Sí Bheag, Sí Mhór/Southwind,” are performed as waltzes on the album. What was it like to explore and learn those two waltzes for Me Grief and Tears to Smother: Traditional Songs of the Irish Diaspora?

NV: It was fun to play some instrumental Irish music. Most of what I had learned was vocal music, but it was a fun challenge to arrange a full-sounding guitar accompaniment to Ben’s melody lines.

BT: It was so great! I’ve been a fan of waltzes for a long time, having included a set of two original waltzes on my first album, Songs of the Lakes, Rivers, and Seas: Shanties, Forecastles, and Other Maritime Music, with Michael Dause. My love for the waltz was stoked by Bob Bernard, owner of the Earthwork Farm and the leader of the waltz hour that happens every year at Harvest Gathering. Bob says that when you take out that fourth beat, it invites you to slow down and listen. I think there’s a lot of truth in that. Both of these waltzes I first heard from his playing.

Q: “Rocky Road to Dublin” chronicles a person’s adventures as they travel to Liverpool from Taum. How did you connect with their adventures and their determination to continue along their journey despite facing several challenges? 

BT: “Rocky Road to Dublin” was originally written as a comedic piece, and while the degree of the protagonist’s misfortune may lean towards absurd, there are times when life seems like it just doesn’t stop throwing punches. But through all of that, they still make it to their destination to pursue better material conditions.

While the trials faced by the main character here are on the exaggerated end, there are lots of folks who suffer from poor material conditions and can at least resonate with their tenacity to pursue a better life. Obviously, so much more plays into improving your conditions than just determination, but addressing systemic issues clearly wasn’t at the top of the priority list for what was essentially a pop song of the time.

NV: Speaking from my own experience, my struggles have been much different. I’ve struggled with anxiety, depression and addiction. These get in the way of my thirst for knowledge, my love of life and even the joy that music usually brings. It’s been essential for me to look for help and ask for it and keep persevering the best that I can. This way, I can enjoy my life and enrich the lives of those around me.

Q: How did the song’s lyric, “me grief and tears to smother,” inspire the album’s title?

NV: I believe Ben had the idea to use this line, and I thought it was perfect.

BT: I suggested the lyric from “Rocky Road to Dublin” be the album title since Rayna Gellert and Susie Goehring’s incredible album Starch & Iron takes its title from the song, “Say Darlin’ Say.” I think it’s a cool way to have a title that relates to your album without having a specific title track.

Q: “Tim Finnegan’s Wake” tells how a man falls from a ladder, breaks his skull and is pronounced dead. At his wake, his loved ones spill whiskey on his corpse and bring him back to life. How does this track serve as a memorable tale of whiskey being Tim Finnegan’s lifeblood and downfall?

NV: This song is quite energetic and humorous. Ben played it for me, and I was instantly drawn to the playfulness of it—the rowdy chorus, the ridiculous narrative, all of it. It was a great song to add unison melodies to in the chorus, too.

BT: Whiskey is an anglicization of the Irish phrase uisce beatha, which translates to the water of life. Despite this connection, there are only a few songs that lean into this circle of life theme. It’s hard to tell whether the writer was trying to be thought-provoking or was just trying to make an absurd drinking song, but the thing killing you being what brings you back to life is an interesting theme.

Q: How did the 12 tracks for Me Grief and Tears to Smother: Traditional Songs of the Irish Diaspora evolve as you recorded them over two years? What was it like to record those tracks at the House on the Hill/Earthwork Farm as well as both of your homes? How did you each help shape the album’s overall creative direction and sound?

BT: The songs didn’t evolve in any super major way. After we picked what verses we were going to roll with, the rest of the arrangements tended to fall into place. I think the song that changed the most was “Danny Boy” with us trying everything from no harmonies to crunchy, multilayered harmonies with Nick bringing some interesting jazz arrangements into the fold.

We eventually settled on a lower-key, two-part harmony, and I couldn’t be happier with how it sounds! Recording on the farm was magic; it always is. My shanty album was recorded elsewhere on the farm, but it was too cold to use any of those spaces. Doing our early tracking there let us have that farm magic, and it provided the foundation for the record without us having to be concerned with the sonic quality of those recordings.

Recording at home is always great, too. We’re in a home-recording renaissance right now, and you can get a decent home setup for a comparable amount [instead of] going to a studio. It feels good to be able to take our time and not have to worry about racking up hourly recording costs, but we still have each other to keep accountable so we don’t just sit on it forever.

NV: We recorded the scratch tracks at the farm and did some rough arrangement ideas. It was a cool experience working the wood stove—it didn’t work as well as we wanted—and being able to hang out in such a rustic environment.

As we listened to the songs over and over, we both got some ideas on where fiddle, mandolin, bodhrán, banjo, bass and vocal harmonies would sound best. We both produced it in that respect. It will be super exciting to get as close to that as possible with our live musicians on this tour.

Q: What do you have planned for your album release tour? Will you be playing the new album in its entirety? Any plans to play tracks from your respective solo releases or other unreleased songs?

NV: We plan to play the album and give a bit of a history lesson on each song, courtesy of Ben. If we need to fill time, we have a plethora of folk songs from each of our own repertoires to jam over.

BT: We’re playing this album in its entirety! It looks a little different than it does on the album, especially with Noah Cameron playing some light drums in addition to the bodhrán. It’s a ton of fun!

The shows have had slightly different setups. The more listening room-oriented spaces like The Clover Room and The Robin Theatre are better vibes for stretching out and giving more in-depth details on the songs’ histories. Spots like Goshen Brewing have some more songs without as much background.

Q: What’s it like to have Josh Holcomb (fiddle, viola), Noah Cameron (drums, bodhrán) and Carsten Forester (upright bass) on your album release tour? How are they helping bring the tracks from your new album to life on stage?

NV: I’ve only had the pleasure of meeting Josh on a few occasions at Earthwork events. I’m very excited to jam with him and have him bring the fiddle tunes to life!

Noah has been a mutual friend of ours for a while, and it only felt right to include the best percussionist we know on the tour. We also are part of a nonprofit group called Music Sparks Meaning with him. He’s a great guy and a great friend.

I met Carsten at Great Lakes Music Camp last year, and we became fast friends. He’s a goofy roots musician who plays mandolin and guitar and is into the same music I am. It was inevitable.

BT: Josh, Noah and Carsten have all been staples of my band for some time now. They’re all serious players and great people. It just made sense to bring people I’ve been playing with for a long time now into the fold to support on this tour, too.

Q: You’re sharing the stage with Micah Ling and Molly McBride at The Robin Theatre on Nov. 16 for your album release tour. Why did you invite them to join you? What will they help bring to their respective shows?

 BT: Micah has been on my radar for a long time. She’s an alum of Earthwork Music Collective and that was how we first met. We knew we wanted The Robin Theatre show to be a co-bill, and Micah was a clear fit for that bill. She’s deep in the traditional music community out in Lansing, and it was her idea to bring Molly McBride into the fold. I’m excited to see what they cook up.

Q: What’s up next for you both after the album release tour? Any plans to write new material or go back into the studio for other projects in 2024?

BT: Keepin’ on keepin’ on! I’ve got some really exciting things in the works for St. Paddy’s, including a tour out to New York in April and some Earthwork Collective stuff. I’m also working on getting my home studio treated and dialed in to continue working on new collaborative and solo projects.

 NV: I’m working on writing songs for a second solo album as well as a project based upon the labors of Hercules, an album of retelling Greek myths, and reharmonizations of Super Mario Bros. tunes.

Show details:

Ben Traverse & Nick Veine

Sunday, Nov. 12 | 4 p.m.

Ramsdell Theatre, 95 Maple St. in Manistee, Michigan

Tickets: $15

Ben Traverse & Nick Veine with special guests Micah Ling & Molly McBride

Thursday, Nov. 16 | 7:30 p.m.

The Robin Theatre, 1105 S. Washington Ave. in Lansing, Michigan

Tickets: $21